Comparison - NetApp AFF 8020 vs. HP 3PAR Storeserv 8200 2N FLD Int Base

The best honest answer really anyone can give is that it depends. Pricing in and of itself has so many variables including the nature of the deal, the technical need (what I'm sure you're after), and quite honestly the competition. These factors all come into play.

My advise is that my Solutions Architect who is an SME in both of these brands has already commented on this blog and I'm sure he would be more than happy to provide an hour of his time to truly properly answer your question.

My goal is to always agnostically solve pain points and craft solutions. If we can assist please reach out to me via email at nsilverthorne0118@gmail.com.

From what I understand of Gary’s response, can we assume that the HP 3PAR is more suitable for multi-site companies that require replication between sites, and that the Netapp is more suitable for local installations and is probably faster in terms of local backup and restore operations?

With 3PAR when you select StoreOnce backup Appliance, you don't need any 3rd part backup application, using RMC or RMCv you can directly take the direct backups on to the appliance, also if you include the StoreOnce Catalyst plugin then you can also take the direct backups of Oracle and SQL as well again without need of any backup application:

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central – Application plug-ins

Overview

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central provides integration with specific hypervisor/application environments through the following plug-ins.

HP StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central for VMware: allows VMware administrators to create hundreds of VM-aware consistent snapshots and initiate rapid online recovery directly from within the VMware vCenter™ Server virtualization management console. Using the StoreOnce RMC Express Protect feature, customers can also backup to StoreOnce directly. The backups are self-contained volumes that can be restored back to the original or different 3PAR StoreServ array in the event of a disaster.

OneView for VMware vCenter plug-in: gives VMware administrators enhanced visibility of storage resources and precise insight into how individual virtual machines are mapped to datastores and individual storage volumes. When used in conjunction with StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central for VMware, this plug-in gives administrators the power of seamless, rapid online recovery from either snapshots or backups directly from within the vCenter Server virtualization management console.

Riza - trying to give you an accurate answer is kind of like asking "who much will dinner cost"? To get a quote that is in the ballpark, you need to work with either an HPE rep to get you a quote based on the details of what you want (capacity, performance, features, etc.). There's no other way to comparative shopping. I'm happy to help connect you up with someone local - send me an email at calvin dot zito at hpe dot com (no spaces).

Either will after the maintenance period expires. They both offer 3,4 or 5 years upfront for maintenance and support. After that they will sting you big time for renewals.

If you have a lifecycle of say 4 years then get it upfront as there won't be any new charges due to replacements. Software wise is usually around 20% of the rrp price for annual renewal after the initial period of 3,4 or 5. Depends on the vendor.

The other part is how much your data is likely to grow as dedupe appliances such as store once and dell will charge a lot for upgrades. Again it's better to get more at the start to make sure your covered for the time frames you need.

Hope that all makes sense

Thanks you for your advise mate, any way let me know one things which one will give me the iceberg cost at the end of the day...? 3par with storeonce and switch or Netapp with additional third party storage back up let say from Dell server as storage to backup my data, app etc.

iIsee a lot of good comments on features of both Netapp and HP3Par, one important point to consider is that both these solutions offer some sort of point in time snapshots, snapvault,... these do not offer any cataloging features, A good backup solution includes a data base of backups for history. This is why you should also add either Data Protector, VEEM, Catalogic,. CommVault.,... the arrays themselves will do great snapshot recovery but without any information on the backups, the solution would be very limited.

Dear Mr. Gadaffi,

I am certainly happy to help you in your research and will give my thoughts below. However, the best way to really learn about this is to start a conversation. It's kind of like asking... ("How mush for a car?. Well... it depends that your are looking for... )

My email is ty.connor@hpe.com. If you are interested, please reach out!

Both the NetApp AFF 8020 and 3PAR StoreServ 8200 are primary SAN arrays. They will best be price compared by generating similar configurations based on amount of storage, type of drive class, support and software features. 3PAR does not add any additional cost to add data protection. Both controllers are active / active, load balanced, load sharing. This means that both controllers can see, read and write to every single bit of data on all the drives. You don't loose data.

When you mention "data protection and backup" I am thinking that you mean adding a backup software and a disk to disk backup appliance. In HP's world our backup appliance is called StoreOnce. This appliance can work with ANY backup software provider you choose. HP has a backup software called Data Protector but we also particularly like working with Veeam for highly virtualized environments.

There are some significant differences in the NetApp and 3PAR arrays, I would be happy to walk through those with you if you reach out to me via email.

Thanks

In the HPE Storage portfolio there are Data Protection and Backup offerings. The 3PAR Standard OS and SW options provide users with features that may provide a level of protection and backup that meets the needs. IF so, the options SW titles are industry average/acceptable.

If not, HPE 3PAR does have a direct connection to another HPE Storage Solution for D2D backup and Data Protection - HW: StoreOnce, SW: DataProtector. If the backup and data protection project requires a specific BURA solution, then the StoreOnce and DataProtector solutions are additional and the costs depend upon your needs (for example there is a software defined BURA solution for StoreOnce - StoreOnce VSA. This offering comes in large capacity license and with a low cost of ownership.

Ozgur Bulent Koza - I am not speaking for Gary but your conclusion that NetApp is better if you need local snapshots and 3PAR for remote replication is inaccurate. 3PAR has more than adequate snapshot capabilities and has advantages over NetApp. And in fact with 3PAR and StoreOnce Recovery Manager Central, you can create a "flat backup" from snapshots and store them on StoreOnce when needed for recovery. There is also snapshot integration between 3PAR and backup ISVs like Data Protector and Veeam.

So I don't agree with buy NetApp for local snapshots, 3PAR for remote replication.

Oh god I wondered when pure would raise its hand here. Seems to happen on every all flash post like they are desperate to sell systems.

I wouldn't touch pure they are struggling with sales against HP and EMC with xtremeIO systems. At a guess I would say they will get bought out soon by someone like Lenovo or another storage vendor.

However the topic here is HP vs NetApp and what's needed i would recommend staying on subject and not trying to promote other systems that haven't been asked about.

I would back the HP system here with data protector for backup. NetApp as someone else mentioned has big issues with their all flash hence why they bought an all flash competitor solid fire so that they have a proper all flash offering without WAFL

Hello, i am not familiar with 3Par storage but i can tell you great things about the PureStorage all-flash-arrays. We installed the FA-450 and an M50 and the performance is unbelievable!! Both pump through 200,000 32K IOPS. All redundant hardware and fantastic customer service.

Will there be any offsite replication ?

@Peter Fairclough - if you have a 3PAR 7450, the full name is HPE 3PAR StoreServ 7450. Some people use just 3PAR, some just StoreServ but they are the same thing.

As per gary answer, you can purchase the full suite, but if the customer has only one 3par then virtual copy is enaugh...

So if I understand what you're asking, you want to know if there is any
kind of premium to being able to back up the 3par array? The answer is no,
but there is software specifically available to do snapshots (Virtual Copy)
and for special direct-to-disk backup from a 3par to an HP StoreOnce
de-duplication appliance from Oracle or SQL Server. Feel free to call me if
you need further explanation.

Hi Ariel,

Yes. I am a current HP Master ASE Storage Solutions Architect V1 and NetApp PSCP/NCIE. I am also a SME with both of these technologies.

There are additional costs with both technologies in regards to data protection.

The HPE 3PAR StoreServ 8000 storage utilizes Virtual Copy, Remote Copy, and Peer Persistence which is part of the 3PAR replication software suite. This suite allows for reservationless point-in-time copies, automatic replication, and transparent failover.

The NetApp All Flash FAS AFF8000 has a Flash Bundle that includes SnapRestore, SnapMirror, FlexClone, SnapManager, and SnapVault. This will allow to backup and restore entire Snapshot copies in seconds, DR replication, instant virtual copies, and application-consistent backups and recovery.

I work for a HP/NetApp VAR on the east coast. You can connect with your VAR with the respective manufacturer to review these additional costs.

HTH...

Thanks,
Gary Binns, The Storage Ninja

It depends on what sort of feature set, disaster recovery, and requirements
your problem solution demands. An exchange server with a few thousand users
and HA will require more features than, say, an archival server. Pricing is
entirely variable based on how good your relationship is with your reseller
& their mood that day.
ᐧ

Generally you use Raid for backup, raid 5 or 10, so that will be built in
at no additional cost.

Encryption (data protection) is likely a flat fee for a certificate and
will add 1-2% overhead to the performance.

This is standard across almost all data storage devices.

no, we bought 7450 not storeserv

So I would say as it pertains to data protection, from the limited information that is provided. Remote Copy and Virtual Copy are all based on the amount of storage and the # of disks but I would say that these capabilities are approximately 6 to 7% of the costs just glancing at a recent quote.

Typically backup from HP would be with HPStoreONCE, their backup appliance with its own native dedupe algorithm that seamlessly integrates with 3PAR and VMWare. That is a whole other product that typically would be used for backup and that is a separate additional cost that depends on the configuration.

I'm not part of sales team, but I can give techniacal advise.
First : the customer is shipping a basic 3par. What kind of disks license he intend to ship?
Second point: you need to add a backup solution, you can ask for a storeonce(vtl) or go with the appliance (vsa) and store the backups in the 3par itself
At least he can ask for virtual copy to tun snapshot...

Arcserve UDP supports from virtual, Physical and tape backups. Got some of the best deduce ratios iv seen.

Either solution should be protected by an Enterprise grade Data Management
solution such as Commvault. www.commvault.com

Can you define what you mean by data protection? Are you talking about remote replication, backup integration, or something else? the response from Ozgur and Syed both expose some good information but let me point you to a few blog posts with more details:

Veeam integration is the best in the industry. We've had integration with Veeam for years and continue to improve it. Here are a couple of blog posts that have details and demos:
> community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/HP-Storage-and-Veeam-integration-demo/ba-p/6794645 This is a post that includes a demo video I did at VeeamOn 2014. There have been additions to what we can do now, that is the next link.
> StoreOnce Catalyst is an API that allows deduplication to happen where most effective. Veeam and HPE have Catalyst integration with Veeam v9. This post from last week talks about it: community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/The-wait-is-over-HPE-StoreOnce-Catalyst-with-Veeam-v9-a-data/ba-p/6824653

Recover Manager Central is a solution for VMware and SQL. As Syed says, it allows you to do backups directly from 3PAR to a StoreOnce without backup software. Again, I have blog posts that talk about this and here are a couple:
> community.hpe.com/t5/Around-the-Storage-Block/1-1-3-when-you-integrate-3PAR-StoreOnce-with-RMC/ba-p/6796040 is a post from last April and gives a really good overview of RMC from the product manager.

A couple last things. HPE 3PAR All-flash has been the fastest growing all-flash in the industry. It has numerous "best in class" and analyst "leaders quadrant" rankings. The thing that sets it apart is you get the performance of all-flash, with really good compaction to drive the price down to the cost of 15K and 10K HDD drives, but it has a set of enterprise features that no other all-flash array has. And if you want to add low cost HDD 7.2K RPM drives to a 3PAR, you can.

Happy to answer any questions you have.

I would be hesitant to install a 3Par 8200 series all flash array until their next Code release comes out in 2-3 weeks which is slated to fix a problem with space reclamation, reporting, and garbage collection on the FLASH drives.

I am having a customer satisfaction issue now due to this problem. I will say that HP is taking care of the customer with 50% additional flash storage at no cost to customer. So HP is making it right and the customer is going to come out with a great deal.

Just make sure you have plenty of capacity to start with. We are also having issues with the deduplication on the SSD drive for that customer.

I have another recent all flash 3PAR install on the 8100 and we had no problems and they are getting 4 to 1 inline dedupe on the SSD drives.

I can help with this question. Both of those solutions require backup
software/hardware. You should try to buy an array that has data protection
built in, and supports hooks into public cloud providers.

Data protection? Backup? This can mean a lot of different things. At first glance no. Nothing is needed, but there are options available, Application Suites, snaps, replication, HA Cage, encryption, FlatBackup, etc. But it all depends on needs.

If they looking at NETAPP 8020 they need to look no further than the fact NETAPP just bought SolidFire. A flash start up. What does that say about their own lineup? Not to mention the slide they have been in over the last year.

There is no single difference in this two products, massive difference...

Need to understand your requirement to suggest which is prefer in your DC.

With either solution you will need some form of data protection solution. No storage vendor offers backup. It's just snapshots. For proper backup you can get HP data protector which will integrate with the 3par or netapp badges commvault for the netapp array.

Never trust storage only solutions providers who say they do backup as they don't for long term without huge additional costs for disk.

It depends what kind of backup and data protection you are looking at........? for quick reference with 3PAR using RMC or RMCV yon can take the backups directly to HPE StoreOnce appliance without need of any additional or third party backup software this will helps you to save the capacity on 3PAR as well as save the snapshots or data with longer retention on StoreOnce appliance using deduplication feature.

Hi,
If you have a Virtualized environment, than Veeam Backup would definitely be the best one to go with, due to it's powerful snapshot and backup functionality (a 2 socket license costs approx. 1.500$).

However, if you don't use a virtualized environment, than you can consider the following two solutions that have proven themselves to be reliable: DataProtector or Symantec BackupExec.

Also, besides these subjects (data protection, backup) please check out the features deduplication and compression. If I'm not wrong, HP 3PAR supports deduplication only on SSD Disk Platforms, and no compression. Whereas Netapp supports both features on all platforms. Again, I may not be quite right, please ask your vendor for details.

Regards,
Ozgur

…I am confused – data protection is built in with the implementation of RAID 5+3 and the backups will be down to their current chosen backup strategy?!