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it_user815436 - PeerSpot reviewer
Director Of Integration And Performance at a media company with 10,001+ employees
Real User
With PurePath, we are able to pinpoint where the problems are
Pros and Cons
  • "We're able to tell them which calls, which methods, which interface were the problem."

    What is our primary use case?

    We have a critical enterprise-level project where we have seen a lot of performance issues. We tried to figure out what tool might help us solve some of those performance issues. Then we heard about Dynatrace, so we engaged Dynatrace. It's basically about solving performance issues.

    In terms of performance, we're still a work in progress. I think we have made good progress identifying the areas where the problems are, and now it's a matter of just working with the different teams trying to figure out what the roadmap is going to be.

    We're learning the tool. At the same time, it's also about educating folks within our organization in terms of what Dynatrace can do. And also how do we apply it? How do we make use of Dynatrace and what do we do with the information we get? How do we take that and go to the next step of implementing the changes?

    How has it helped my organization?

    At least we're able to pinpoint where the problems are instead of just saying, "Here's the results and here are the failures." At least we're able to tell them which calls, which methods were the problem, which interface. That was a huge step for us, to be able to do that. 

    We are not the DevOps or the application team. We're coming from the testing side and, generally, it's challenging when you are working with an application built by a different team. When you run a test and say, "Hey! Here's your problem," unless you show the proof, you show the information, they're not going to be able to take it and make some changes to it. So the big first step for us was to identify where the problem was within the application. 

    Now, it's mostly about, "What do we do about it?" You have these problems. What are we doing about making some changes and getting into the roadmap.

    What is most valuable?

    PurePath. We just started using it, it's been less than a year. PurePath is really helpful. 

    And I'm learning now about the dashboards, and the session replay is another that was really fascinating to see. I guess AppMon probably doesn't have those things yet.

    The features I'm most excited about are the AI piece, the session playback, and the fact that the deployment is even easier with the new version. Not only deployment, but the setup piece of it, I'm hearing, it's easy. I haven't tried it out but that's really encouraging.

    What needs improvement?

    To be honest with you, I think they have a great roadmap. And the fact that they are using the feedback from the customers to build into the roadmap, is a great feature. I have nothing in particular that I want to see.

    Buyer's Guide
    Dynatrace
    December 2024
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    For how long have I used the solution?

    Less than one year.

    What do I think about the stability of the solution?

    From what I've seen, from what I've experienced, absolutely no problem with stability. Especially the ease with which it gets deployed, and also the support we typically get has been amazing. We have no regrets using Dynatrace. It's been a good experience so far.

    What do I think about the scalability of the solution?

    So far we've implemented this for a couple of different applications. It scaled pretty well for us. We're about 2,000 or 3,000 users, but we'll have a better answer as we start rolling it out to more applications. So far, no issues with scaling.

    How are customer service and support?

    From what I've seen, they're very knowledgeable and easy to work with.

    Which solution did I use previously and why did I switch?

    We've used a variety of tools, not so much in the APM space. It was mostly about SiteScope and Wiley, those kind of things.

    With Dynatrace we were able to pinpoint where the problems were with PurePath, which was something we did not have. Obviously, we didn't work with an APM solution so I'm only comparing this with a non-APM solution like SiteScope. There, it's mostly about, "Hey, here's your CPU, here's your memory," rather than pinpointing where the actual problems are, which is something that PurePath gives us.

    How was the initial setup?

    I think it was really, really straightforward. It's the second time around. Some of the things, we did them ourselves.

    What other advice do I have?

    In terms of AI, when it comes to IT's ability to scale in the cloud and manage performance problems, we don't have a cloud implementation yet. But, in general, what I've seen with AI, I think they're learning. The self-healing thing was really impressive in terms of, if you have a problem, what do you do about it? You get notified automatically. Then how do you fix it? Those are some of the things with AI that I thought were pretty cool.

    If there was one solution that could not only provide data but real answers, the immediate benefit of that for our team would be huge. Not just telling us, "Here's the data" - there's so much data out there - but what do you make of it? What's the critical data? I guess that's where Dynatrace is headed with AI and the self-healing. That would be huge. If they can say, "Hey, here's your problem. Here's what you need to do to fix the problem." That would be significant. 

    I think the solution meets our needs where it is, so from that perspective, it's a nine out of 10.

    The most important criteria when working with a vendor or selecting a vendor are customer service and what type of product offerings they have. Do they see the vision of the future in terms of cloud and those kinds of things? Those are some of the things we consider very important.

    To a colleague who is looking into this type of solution, I would say we have had a really good experience. If they're in a similar situation, try it out. Do a proof concept. Try it out and see if it's good for you. It may or may not be a good fit. Everybody's different. Try it out.

    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    it_user815454 - PeerSpot reviewer
    CEO/Founder at Keizer Consulting Group
    Real User
    Enables viewing the full transaction flow, from customer to back-end systems, for problem analysis, triage, performance optimization
    Pros and Cons
    • "The stuff that's coming with the new pieces around the Dynatrace Managed SaaS implementation. The ease of implementation there is significant. We've spent a lot of time with AppMon and DC RUM - that's a lot of time to set up, configure. With Managed solution, you just drop it in and everything pretty much auto-instruments."
    • "One of the key things with Dynatrace is that they are very open to influence on product development side. So, we've influenced them fairly heavily on development and capabilities for Citrix and DC RUM. They've given us integration and support components around some odd technologies that we've got, and they have always been very open and accommodating to going after and developing capabilities around the stuff that we are looking for."
    • "On the Managed side tech support has been pretty good. Stuff gets turned around pretty quickly. With them being able to do the remote management from the back-end, they are able to fix stuff up if they need to."
    • "One thing we'd like to see is mobile native replay. They don't have a timeline on it yet, but that's one of the key things we're looking at, to get rid of one of our incumbent products that does replay."
    • "We need extended support for some of the agents, the one-agent technologies under Managed. We've got some old legacy platforms that don't have one-agent support yet."

    What is our primary use case?

    To look at the full transaction flow, from the customer all the way through back-end systems, for problem analysis, triage, performance optimization.

    It does it really well. The more visibility you have through the agent implementations, the deeper you can get down through the stack and identify what you're looking for and how to fix it, find it, tune it.

    How has it helped my organization?

    The Managed SaaS is going to simplify things a lot and allow us to consolidate a lot of tool sets. We are going to be able to get rid of some of the old Legacy monitoring tools and replace them with something much better that puts everything in one place.

    What is most valuable?

    The stuff that's coming with the new pieces around the Dynatrace Managed SaaS implementation. The ease of implementation there is significant. We've spent a lot of time with AppMon and DC RUM - that's a lot of time to set up, configure. With Managed solution, you just drop it in and everything pretty much auto-instruments, which makes life a lot easier.

    What needs improvement?

    One of the things that I was talking about with Simon earlier was getting mobile native replay. They don't have a timeline on it yet, but that's one of the key things we're looking at, to get rid of one of our incumbent products that does replay. 

    Also, extended support for some of the agents, the one-agent technologies under Managed. We've got some old legacy platforms that don't have one-agent support yet.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    One to three years.

    What do I think about the stability of the solution?

    The Managed solution is much more stable. We've been running that environment for about six months now and it hasn't had hiccup yet. We had problems with AppMon before. We've taken AppMon beyond it's stated capabilities. We are running 2,400 agents off of a single server in a single system profile, which is well beyond the stated capacity. I think the stated agent cutoff limits are 1,200. We passed that like a year ago. We measure the internal workings of AppMon to make sure it's not going to fall over, but we hit those thresholds almost daily now. So we are throwing data out just because it's over capacity.

    What do I think about the scalability of the solution?

    Managed, we can scale it out massively. AppMon doesn't scale well. That's the other piece, why we're looking at Managed, because we're already over capacity there. We've got to move stuff to the other platform, to Managed, so that we can get the horizontal and the vertical scale ability, and get away from our "problem child" on the other side.

    How are customer service and technical support?

    We use tech support. How I would rate them depends. So some of our problems are quite complex, because of how we've stressed the system to the extent that we have. So, we've had some stuff on the AppMon side that's because we're well beyond the usable limits. They help where they can, but in some instances it just is what it is.

    On the Managed side it's been pretty good. Stuff gets turned around pretty quickly. With them being able to do the remote management from the back-end, they are able to fix stuff up if they need to.

    In terms of response time, relative to the complexity of the problem, I think it's reasonable. Some of our problems have been not normal. But the normal stuff, they turn it around fairly quickly. We don't pay for Premium support either, so you get what you pay for. They are usually quite responsive, and we've got really good connections into most of the folks back in the labs, so it works out well.

    Which solution did I use previously and why did I switch?

    With the company I'm consulting with now, they had Dynatrace before there was a desire internally to look at some AppDynamics stuff. They did a bit of a bake-off and decided that it wasn't the right way to go just because of the capabilities and features. So it's always been on that side of the Dynatrace stuff. 

    But I've used New Relic and AppD and the IBM Application Performance Monitoring solutions, so I've seen lots of them, and Dynatrace is definitely the better of them all, by a long shot.

    How was the initial setup?

    Set it up myself. It took 20 minutes. Put a piece of hardware in, run two scripts, done.

    We ran into a bit of a technical issue where we had to engage the support guys. They identified the issue, fixed the scripts, and then the people after us didn't have to deal with it. I think we were one of the first Managed on-prem implementations; maybe, not the first, but one of the few. So we weren't doing a normal implantation I guess, so little hiccups, but they were quickly resolved.

    What other advice do I have?

    I think is role of AI when it comes to IT's ability to scale in the cloud and manage performance problems is a big game changer. That's one of the reasons that we're looking at moving a lot of our stuff from the legacy AppMon over to the Managed platforms, so we can take advantage of that and get rid of some of our more archaic event management, event lifecycle, alerting-type platforms. A lot of that stuff doesn't add the value that it should. So we are looking at the AI engine and the anomaly detection to basically replace a lot of that manual effort.

    These archaic solutions are all siloed monitoring tools. That's one of the things I presented on here at the Perform 2018 conference yesterday, about all the data silos across all the old platforms, and being able to pull them together into Dynatrace so you can get that single pane of glass. The siloed solutions all had their own purposes, but the data was not inter-relatable. You'd have OS monitoring tools, and even AppMon, DC RUM, Synthetics; they all have great data, but they're not tied together.

    The immediate benefit of just one solution that could provide real answers, and not just data, would be you could look at it in one spot. Even one of our groups that came to us a couple weeks ago said, "Oh yeah, we are going to do a new native mobile app and we're going to use this piece of freeware from Google and this piece of freeware from there." And I said, "Okay, so how are you going to pull that all together?" And they said, "Well, you can look here, and then look it up there..."  And when I said, "Why? We already have a solution that does that," they said, "But, they're free tools", and I said, "Yeah, free necessarily isn't always the best option."

    In terms of vendor selection, I think one of the key things with Dynatrace is that they are very open to influence on product development side. So, we've influenced them fairly heavily on development and capabilities for Citrix and DC RUM. They've given us integration and support components around some odd technologies that we've got, and they have always been very open and accommodating to going after and developing capabilities around the stuff that we are looking for, which has been good.

    I rate it an eight out of 10. I don't know if it could ever get to a 10 because there are always going be anomalies and idiosyncrasies that, commercially, it doesn't make sense for them to cater to everything. There is stuff that I'd like it to be able to do but commercially it just doesn't make sense. But, at the same time, they are evolving into things that need to happen as technology advances.

    In terms of advice to someone who is research this type of solution, I get pulled on from the Dynatrace Accounts team regularly to do those sorts of conversations. I'm a pretty firm believer in the products and what they can do. I highly recommend them to anyone who is looking at them. I've used the competitive - or non-competitive - products that are out there, so it's pretty clear for me as far as why it's the right choice. I'm happy to have those conversations with them to take them down that path and let them understand the why's and what decisions they should make.

    Disclosure: My company has a business relationship with this vendor other than being a customer: Partner.
    PeerSpot user
    Buyer's Guide
    Dynatrace
    December 2024
    Learn what your peers think about Dynatrace. Get advice and tips from experienced pros sharing their opinions. Updated: December 2024.
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    it_user810702 - PeerSpot reviewer
    APM Platform Architect at a transportation company with 10,001+ employees
    Real User
    Easier to deploy, reduces complexity, and increases our speed to market
    Pros and Cons
    • "Reduces the amount of knowledge that is needed by applications consuming this data."
    • "When the tool ingests data from other tools, being able to correlate those with the existing topology, so that the AI engine can draw more conclusions in case Dynatrace does not monitor those instances."
    • "It needs more dashboards like AppMon."

    What is our primary use case?

    The primary use is for both corporate and manufacturing plants' applications.

    Performance has been great. We started out with application monitoring and now we're in the process of switching over to Dynatrace. So far it's yielding great results. It's getting people to think more, and it's easier to deploy.

    How has it helped my organization?

    The old generation tool from Dynatrace, the application monitoring, has been our defacto solution, and it was very successful. Switching over to Dynatrace it 

    1. reduces complexity
    2. increases the speed to market
    3. reduces the amount of knowledge that is needed by applications consuming this data.

    What needs improvement?

    There are two main features that we're very interested in. Number one is, when the tool ingests data from other tools, being able to correlate those with the existing topology, so that the AI engine can draw more conclusions in case Dynatrace does not monitor those instances. 

    Also, more dashboards like AppMon.

    What do I think about the stability of the solution?

    Stability is great, and it's constantly improving. We haven't had any issues with it. There hasn't been any downtime since I've been working on it.

    What do I think about the scalability of the solution?

    We haven't scaled the Dynatrace solution at this point.

    How are customer service and technical support?

    Technical support is really great, and they're very quick. If they cannot fix it, they're very good about escalating right away to product development.

    Our issues were mostly around Synthetic, some incompatibilities with the JavaScript frameworks. For Dynatrace specifically, it was for the browser RUM.

    Which solution did I use previously and why did I switch?

    When I joined our company, they were already using a little bit of Dynatrace. The concept of APM was there. And then, the company that I had joined split from the initial company. It was pretty much a new, clean slate, but there was the awareness of APM already there.

    How was the initial setup?

    It was very straightforward. We deployed it on our own.

    Which other solutions did I evaluate?

    We evaluated ManageEngine because we already have their infrastructure monitoring. We did evaluate their APM solution, but it was no where near as good as this solution.

    What other advice do I have?

    I think our complexity is increased by the fact that we use a lot of custom, off the shelf, or COTS, applications, as well as in-house applications. So that introduces a high complexity of different technologies. Having a tool that can be self-injected into all of these is one thing. And the second thing is the fact that it gets deployed at the host level, without having to go tweak application containers. That reduces complexity and the time to value a lot.

    We still have some siloed monitoring tools but they don't have any awareness of other components that might make up that application's delivery chain.

    If we had just one solution that could provide a real answer and not just data, at the company level it would definitely reduce a lot of the downtime. That would be key for our company, especially since we're in the manufacturing environment and deal with very strict SLAs with our customers.

    Our most important criteria when working with a vendor are 

    • their willingness to understand the needs of our company
    • the responsiveness to technical questions
    • the availability during a PoC, so that we can address outstanding items.

    I definitely rate this solution a 10 out of 10, because it's a very mature product, and due to the quality of support.

    Make sure they understand what you're going to use the tool for, and do a PoC and you will be amazed at how fast you get value from it. 

    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    PeerSpot user
    Project Manager at a financial services firm with 1,001-5,000 employees
    Real User
    Provides insight into page elements contributing to load time, and how to improve them
    Pros and Cons
    • "Helps us in understanding what elements on the page contribute to load time and the primary ​areas to focus on for improvement."
    • "Daily metrics which us analyze the page composition and the corresponding performance metrics so we can quickly and easily determine when something has changed, to aid in root cause analysis."
    • "Perhaps there is a FAQ which explains the metrics and how to interpret them, and I just haven't seen it. This would be beneficial in providing context to allow sharing the daily metrics reported within the company."

    What is our primary use case?

    Website performance monitoring of load times for both desktop and mobile web.

    Comparison of our site performance to other financial services companies to ensure we balance the delivery of rich content, which enhances the user experience, with comparable page load times to ensure it's not at the cost of performance. 

    We seek to understand the areas of page composition that have the greatest impact on load time performance so we can focus our efforts on optimization to improve the user experience.

    How has it helped my organization?

    Understanding what elements on the page contribute to load time and the primary areas to focus on for improvement.

    What is most valuable?

    The daily metrics which help us analyze the page composition and the corresponding performance metrics so we can quickly and easily determine when something has changed, to aid in root cause analysis.

    What needs improvement?

    Perhaps there is a FAQ which explains the metrics and how to interpret them, and I just haven't seen it. This would be beneficial in providing context to allow sharing the daily metrics reported within the company.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    Less than one year.
    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    it_user793158 - PeerSpot reviewer
    Works at a tech services company with 10,001+ employees
    Real User
    Alerts help us to minimize application downtime; server monitoring is very accurate
    Pros and Cons
    • "The best part of Dynatrace is that the tool is very lightweight and very easy to install."
    • "The server monitoring is very accurate in this tool. We are able to prevent many critical Incidents."
    • "The one thing I do not like about Dynatrace is that their web dashboards are very very slow. They seriously have to improve their web dashboard configuration and SSL timeouts."

    What is our primary use case?

    Minimize application downtime.

    How has it helped my organization?

    We are able to solve many problems using Dynatrace. The main thing we have achieved using this software is minimizing the downtime of our applications by reacting to the alerts that it triggers. 

    The server monitoring is very accurate enabling us to identify the issues proactively and fix them.

    What is most valuable?

    • The best part of Dynatrace is that the tool is very lightweight and very easy to install. 
    • It is very simple and interesting to install agents on the multiple servers. 
    • I like the UI and dashboards that we can build on Dynatrace. 
    • The PurePaths section is very very informative. It points exactly to the exception and we can pinpoint using parameters.
    • We are able to generate many reports which we were not able to produce before. This helps in visualizing the data better and in presenting the data in more advanced ways.

    What needs improvement?

    The one thing I do not like about Dynatrace is that their web dashboards are very very slow. They seriously have to improve their web  dashboard configuration and SSL timeouts.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    One to three years.
    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    reviewer1170870 - PeerSpot reviewer
    Enterprise Monitoring | Information Services at a healthcare company with 5,001-10,000 employees
    Real User
    Does thorough scanning of services and applications, but SNMP monitoring is not very good
    Pros and Cons
    • "It is a very good APM tool. There is a lot of thorough scanning of services and applications. It has got great monitoring features."
    • "Its infra monitoring is not that good. They are mainly into the APM environment, such as network monitoring and other things. Strong end-to-end infrastructure monitoring is missing. SNMP monitoring is currently not very good in this solution."

    What is our primary use case?

    We are using it for user monitoring and service monitoring.

    What is most valuable?

    It is a very good APM tool. There is a lot of thorough scanning of services and applications. It has got great monitoring features.

    PurePath helps us to identify minor glitches in applications and services. It collects everything from user sessions.

    What needs improvement?

    Its infra monitoring is not that good. They are mainly into the APM environment, such as network monitoring and other things. Strong end-to-end infrastructure monitoring is missing. SNMP monitoring is currently not very good in this solution.

    It is a bit expensive. It could be cheaper.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    I've been using this solution for the last one and half years.

    What do I think about the stability of the solution?

    Its stability is good. It does not break easily.

    What do I think about the scalability of the solution?

    We have not scaled it yet. It is good enough to handle the bulk load. We never faced any performance issues with the tool. We have more than 150 users, and we never saw any issues with it.

    How are customer service and support?

    Their support is very good.

    How was the initial setup?

    It was straightforward. The full deployment probably took a week.

    What about the implementation team?

    We have vendor support, and we collaborated with our vendor for its implementation.

    What's my experience with pricing, setup cost, and licensing?

    Its license is a bit expensive. We renew it yearly.

    What other advice do I have?

    I would rate it a seven out of 10.

    Which deployment model are you using for this solution?

    On-premises
    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    Principal Architect at a computer software company with 11-50 employees
    Real User
    It can monitor our entire infrastructure on AWS
    Pros and Cons
    • "The view it provides for default analysis is very nice. The way in which it showcases how the metrics have been captured and how lucidly that they are displayed. This is a good thing to have from a technical and non-technical perspective."
    • "For the manage services, they work on CloudWatch logs and are given CloudWatch logs only. I would like more collaboration with AWS and insight into CloudWatch services. This would be valuable, especially when detecting the fault of the root cause analysis. It would make the process go faster."

    What is our primary use case?

    Primary use case is EMI, which is application monitoring. Our enterprise management infrastructure is supported by Dynatrace.

    How has it helped my organization?

    Dynatrace has been catering to AWS, and we moved into AWS. This resulted in us being pleased with the product.

    Dynatrace has solved our problems.

    What is most valuable?

    The view it provides for default analysis is very nice. The way in which it showcases how the metrics have been captured and how lucidly that they are displayed. This is a good thing to have from a technical and non-technical perspective.

    What needs improvement?

    For the manage services, they work on CloudWatch logs and are given CloudWatch logs only. I would like more collaboration with AWS and insight into CloudWatch services. This would be valuable, especially when detecting the fault of the root cause analysis. It would make the process go faster. Essentially, more integrated services with AWS would be of help.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    Three to five years.

    What do I think about the stability of the solution?

    It is stable. We have not lost data.

    What do I think about the scalability of the solution?

    It has quite a sleek architecture with respect to the number of instances that can become an agent. 

    As for its environment, Dynatrace is ready to scale. Our environment is huge. We have EMR clusters ranging from 100 to 200.

    How is customer service and technical support?

    We regularly connect with the technical support and obtain input from them. They are nice to work with, so we have been happy with the service.

    What about the implementation team?

    We worked with architects for the best way to configure our Dynatrace in AWS. We selected the managed architecture, and there are less configurations and costs of adoption with Dynatrace.

    What's my experience with pricing, setup cost, and licensing?

    While it is quite good in respect to its functionality, there are few area in regards to pricing that they can look at how to possibly change. I have heard it's costly.

    Which other solutions did I evaluate?

    We did evaluate other vendors, like Datadog, who were also good. However, Dynatrace was implemented earlier, and we continued to use it because it was satisfying all our requirements. 

    Our requirements include:

    • Overall monitoring.
    • Managed services of AWS.
    • Monitoring AWS Lambda.
    • Monitoring Amazon EMR clusters.
    • Getting an understanding about the different set of services that we are on. We have a managed architecture supported by Dynatrace, so we could adopt them very fast.

    What other advice do I have?

    Dynatrace is pretty good as they are the market leaders.

    We started with the on-premise version. Now, we are moving onto the AWS version. From the perspective of analyzing Dynatrace, it was able to do the EMI for all our data services. It has worked out well. We have been happy with it.

    It can monitor your entire infrastructure on AWS. I don't see an option why you should not use this product. If you don't have AWS as a requirement, then maybe re-evaluate. Otherwise, I am confident in the product.

    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    it_user817713 - PeerSpot reviewer
    Works at a financial services firm with 10,001+ employees
    User
    Helped us reduce outage times and severity of impact
    Pros and Cons
    • "Dynatrace has helped us reduce outage times and severity of impact."
    • "Quick availability of multiple aspects of performance from infrastructure to application layers."
    • "So far, we have not achieved the benefit of preventing issues."
    • "​Experience with relationship/account manager has been really poor, it does not seem to be the firm's priority to support their customers."
    • "Need better mapping to true business service rather than purely technical monitoring."

    What is our primary use case?

    Application monitoring to quickly troubleshoot production issues and determine the root cause, as well as non-functional performance testing in QA.

    How has it helped my organization?

    Dynatrace has helped us reduce outage times and severity of impact.

    So far, we have not achieved the benefit of preventing issues.

    What is most valuable?

    Quick availability of multiple aspects of performance from infrastructure to application layers.

    What needs improvement?

    • Wider coverage of platforms supported.
    • Better mapping to true business service rather than purely technical monitoring.

    For how long have I used the solution?

    One to three years.

    How is customer service and technical support?

    Experience with relationship/account manager has been really poor, it does not seem to be the firm's priority to support their customers.

    Disclosure: I am a real user, and this review is based on my own experience and opinions.
    PeerSpot user
    Buyer's Guide
    Download our free Dynatrace Report and get advice and tips from experienced pros sharing their opinions.
    Updated: December 2024
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